Disputing an Invoice

[skylarlanning]

Hi VAF!
I want to introduce myself as well as ask for some advice and support. My name is Skylar. I am 23 years old. I have been an informal VA for years to a number of local family law, franchise, trademark, and business attorneys. I work full time during the day as a front desk receptionist and I transcribe at night. I have this new client that is not organized and expects me to come in person office visits every time to pick up work. In the beginning, I would go to his office, several times and didn’t charge him mileage or travel time. I would only charge him if I stayed in his office for him to explain how he wanted something drafted. He was unprepared for my transcription services. He doesn’t dictate and doesn’t even have a digital voice recorder, which is what I am accustomed too. He is not ready to start emailing me work yet. I just go to his office to pick up sample pleadings and leave. I don’t like going to his office because I pitched the job as a VA and I already have a full time job, which he is fully aware of. I also have my real estate license and want to start drafting as a reva. I don’t charge him any extra hourly rate for in person visits. My in person hourly rate and virtual rate are the same.
However, my main reason for writing this post is because he is disputing one of my invoices. One Saturday, I went to his office to pick up a deposition notice and another pleading, a minor’s petition to compromise. He said he wanted two petitions for two girls. He did not give me a time budget. I went online and found new forms that were very different and require reading. The new forms were the same length (10 pages), but the paragraphs were out of order, and had updated language. His pleading was a much older version. I invoiced him for 3 hours for the each petition, one for Bianca and one for Diana (the names of the girls), and 2 hours for the deposition notice. want to ask other paralegals if they have ever drafted a minor’s petition to compromise? If you have, how long did it take you? How long do typical deposition notices take? Do you think I was taking too long to being unfair? I want to know so I maintain a long relationship with him. I want to know what others think are reasonable and what I could say too maintain the client because right now I don’t have as many as I used too.

Thanx so much,

SL

[leedrozak]

I do not do paralegal or pleadings however I would not have charged him for the learning curve on the new forms unless you talked to him about it first. Consider learning the new forms the cost of doing business (and updating a skill). Now if he would have asked you to use the new forms then you could have said, they are different and there will be additional time for the first few. Although, as I stated I am not adept at legal work so I could be off on this one.

My question to you is why are working with this client without any type of terms or budget? The first question I ask all clients is what is there budget and then if I decide to take them on give them the terms of my service.

You could justify this invoice by stating that you were using new forms since his was outdated and felt that since you do not charge mileage or travel time it was fair that you billed for time to learn the new forms. Sounds as though you will probably have to bite the bullet and make an adjustment after having a conversation with him.

[HoustonVirtualParalegals]

I agree with the above. I must also state you work under his direction, and it's at his discretion what forms to use.

I have not done any family law, but have done literally hundreds of deposition notices. I can usually draft one in under one half hour, depending on whether or not a subpoena duces tecum accompanies the deposition notice. If so, then it may take more time.

[KKanDoVA]

My clients who are not on retainer know I have a minimum fee for the work I provide for them, and expect to pay that. I have some with whom I work locally, and depending upon the distance from my office, I charge for travel to pick up or drop off.

As the other posters have commented, you should have used the docs he is familiar with, pointed out the new form, and asked his permission to use them before jumping in with a learning curve for those new forms.

If you've done similar documents for this client, I would charge the same as previously, and eat the learning time. You now have something added to your portfolio of capabilities, so it will benefit you in the long run.

On another note, if you really want to keep this client, you need to decide what you're willing to give to him before he starts expecting more and more from you. Keep the line drawn on your side, or you'll start resenting his expectations, which will make for a poor relationship.

[WorkingWithYou]

Keep the line drawn on your side, or you'll start resenting his expectations, which will make for a poor relationship."

The learning curve has pretty much been discussed, but I have to tell you how important Karen's statement is. We all have an ideal client, however sometimes you run into a client who hasn't thought out whether they are taking advantage of you or not (though we always try to give them the benefit of the doubt).

Clear boundaries help you to keep a professional image, let's them know what they can expect, and helps to keep the atmosphere professionally enjoyable.

This is your business, and you can choose to offer the service of picking up their work or have them deliver it to you. I have had both. The bottom line to our business is always whether we can afford to lose that client in a worst case scenario. Without boundaries, though, you will begin to resent a great job.

[skylarlanning]

Hi
Thank you for your feedback. So After I received your reply, I adjusted my invoices accordingly and took off several hours for professional courtesy and to build a long business relationship. I apologized and justified my work product. I adjusted my invoice from 11 hours to 8 hours. I drafted 2 (two) petitions to compromise (10 page forms to each petition),l 3 representation letters, one pleading to continue trial date, and a deposition notice for 8 hours . Unfortunately, after we finally agreed to 8 hours. I was chasing this guy for going on now two months for payment. I'm done with emails and phone calls. I've gone out of my way to make it easy for him, offering to pick it up, mail me check, calling once every two weeks. I was not aggressive or harassing. I really just wanted my payment and to stop working with him. Unfortunately, he kept emailing me that I need to come in and sign settlement agreement for payment or accept nothing. I said fine I will I was ready to sign yesterday and he keeps leading me on sending me nasty emails. I said email it to me and I will sign and scan it back. He says he wants to give me more work.I said you’re an attorney and spending so much time on nothing. I said I would’ve met the front desk receptionist and signed it and for him to leave check downstairs. He never did. He said he has no money in bank, he was in Las Vegas, etc. I am only 22 just trying to make extra money for school and rent. I don’t have time and money to take off work to go to small claims court. I am so upset because I did deliver and he was unorganized and unprepared for my level of advanced skill with transcription. It is such a loss for me. Even spending my time writing this disputing invoice thread is not in my character. He agreed to my hourly rate. I kept asking him his budget. He said he wanted to pay me by piece. I told him absolutely not. He has even written me one check prior for four other discovery requests I drafted for him. This was my second invoice to him and he didn’t dispute the first so I thought he would pay as long as I adjusted. Unfortunately, he hasn’t paid me and keeps wasting my time. Here is a sample of one of his emails:
“Such poor job product is not what I believe merits payment as you had demanded at all. You would need to understand that you deliver a job product and you were being paid based on the product that you turn in. If the product is not what the we asked you to turn in, similarly your payment should be not what you asked us to turn in. This is like paying for a defective product. You either had to fix it, or get paid accordingly. If you are willing to fix it within 24 hours, please advise so I could give you a chance to fix the job, if not, then expect no payment for your defective work product.

We could not use the application with wrong data that you have entered. The applications you had written were of no use to us. There was no work value there. It is further evidence that you had made fraudulent claim because clearly it will not take 11 hours to copy information as you had done. Any judge or jury will know that your claim for 11 hours was nothing but a fraudulent mean to make quick buck. I have advised you that this is not the way to be trusted and respected in the legal community.”

Even if I fix it, he won’t pay me for the time I spent going to in person meetings to pick up work when I was hired as virtual assistant. Every employer that I’ve had has paid me for my time and effort even if he or she didn’t like the quality of my work. He has taken advantage of me. He agreed to pay me hourly and he implied that by the first check. I didn’t have a time budget. I kept asking him to tell me what his budget is. have lost so much time and money what should I do? Should I go to small claims for interest and damages? I just feel like this old creep is taking advantage of me when I performed. If he didn’t like my work product and rate , he shouldn’t have given me more work. I am just starting out. I barely have my business off the ground. Please help!

Thank you for much!
Skylar

[leedrozak]

Skylar,

Chalk it up to a life lesson and let it go. You will never see eye to eye with this client. Obviously he feels that you did not do the job that you were hired to do by using the new forms and not the older version forms. Regardless of the forms used, he gave you no direction and you took it upon yourself to move forward as such.

This does not sound like your ideal client, since he wants you to come to his office and your do not want this burden. I know it is hard to walk away from a paying client but trust me (been there done that) it will pay off in the long run. However the thing that really stuck out to me was

Every employer that I’ve had has paid me for my time and effort even if he or she didn’t like the quality of my work

I would never expect payment for a project where someone did not like the quality of my work. To me that statement speaks volumes and makes me wonder if you are truly listening to your clients needs.

I would send him one final correspondence stating that you two obviously did not see eye to eye and therefore you will be walking away from the issue to move on to other endeavors and projects. I would be more concerned about my professional reputation at this point since he is peeved at you and could let his circle know that he is feeling hounded to pay for work that he feels was not adequately performed.

[ChristinaVOS]

Skylar,
First off- Deep Breath! Deep Breath again, and Deep Breath one more time.

Second- Now that you are calm it's time to get down to the hard answer.

You have several choices:

1.Keep wasting your time chasing him when it is apparent, by his email, he has no intention of paying you.

2. Venture to small claims court (small fee and annoying loss of time) and try to get him to pay but, he is a lawyer who knows the system well (and probably has "friends").

3. Let it go, draft up your own contract and start acting like a BUSINESS OWNER not an employee.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh but it kills me to see new, struggling VA's get into these type of predicaments. I would love to walk up to this guy and smack him in the head for you but, alas, I can't.

I understand where you are, we've all done it, been there, got the t-shirt. If you do not take on every client as a BUSINESS you will keep running into these situations. YOU are the boss, YOU make the rules! period.

My vote is for #3: walk away. It really is not worth the stress. Chalk it up as a learning experience and get your business policies in place and in writing. Make clients sign YOUR contract which states late payment policies and what the client needs to do in the case of unacceptable work.

This will pass and you'll be much wiser when the next unprepared potential client comes your way.

Best to you,
~C

[Wordpro Wizard]

Wait a minute ... this client says he has no money, yet he has money to go to Las Vegas??? He wants to give you more work? Does he plan to get that cheap or free as well? Step back, take a deep breath and think about it.

I agree with all that has been said here. Let it go, move on and never start work for anyone without a signed contract and a deposit up front. We've all been burned in the early days. Put it down to a learning experience.

Lynne

[Office Goddess]

I have to agree with everyone who says just walk away.

However, if you still wish to work with this attorney, for whatever reason, (although I would run the other direction as fast as I can ), apparently, YOU need to be the professional in this situation, since he won't be. You need to advise him that in order to continue your BUSINESS relationship, you will need him to sign a contract WITH YOUR COMPANY stating specific duties and payments, and you will expect prompt payment on your invoices. If payment is not received, work will stop and future work will require a deposit up front. [No money, No workee!]

It sounds to me like he is taking advantage of your inexperience, naivety, and "employee mentality." It is up to you to change all of that. You will learn with time and experience where to draw the line with clients, and you will have to work on the "I am a business owner, not an employee" mindset.