Hi

There were such excellent advice and tips offered here on subcontracting. I know it will help so many. Communication is absolutely the key.

Subcontracting can be such a positive experience for both when it works out. As a VA who used Subcontractors on a regular basis, I know that once you find some that are good, they are like gold! I do everything I can to keep them and make them happy and want to stay with me.

Here are some of the things that I've discovered that have worked for me over the years.

1) Directions are very important. I will often have the subcontractor write back and confirm the directions before getting started and also send me an example before they do the entire project. That has saved us so many problems. Often times it's been me that has written the directions wrong. I'm in a hurry and write them quickly and they aren't as they should be. But by having her repeat it back, and send a sample, we catch it. Of course, I do try and slow down and send better instructions too.

2) Time for completion of work. It's really important to have an understanding of this. When I send something new, I will let them know when I need it by and then they confirm. If anything comes up, they know I need to know ASAP. They realize that I'm on a deadline with my clients, so usually they are very good at meeting the timeframes we need.

3) Mistakes ... Often times when something is done wrong, I'll try and explain what is wrong with it and not be too critical. We all make mistakes, and I value them so much that it's not a problem. But I want to be able to come to them with how to do it right so that it's done correctly the next time. I know how I feel when a client comes to me with a mistake, so I avoid the terms "typos," etc. It's a learning process for both of us, so we try and keep it that way.

4) Samples .. I will try and provide them with samples of what I need whenever possible. That really helps.

It's so true that our reputation is on the line so often. I've too had VAs that have disappeared. It is so stressful. I try now and get a phone number and get references and really check them out first. How they present on the forums and their website is a big indicator of their professionalism.

Thanks!

Diana Ennen

I appreciate the info, I am subcontracting for a VA service and I consider them my client. It may be different because its a service but I would never leave them high and dry! I definitely consider any feedback as free training!

Originally Posted by Diana_E

Hi There were such excellent advice and tips offered here on subcontracting. I know it will help so many. Communication is absolutely the key. Subcontracting can be such a positive experience for both when it works out. As a VA who used Subcontractors on a regular basis, I know that once you find some that are good, they are like gold! I do everything I can to keep them and make them happy and want to stay with me. Here are some of the things that I've discovered that have worked for me over the years. 1) Directions are very important. I will often have the subcontractor write back and confirm the directions before getting started and also send me an example before they do the entire project. That has saved us so many problems. Often times it's been me that has written the directions wrong. I'm in a hurry and write them quickly and they aren't as they should be. But by having her repeat it back, and send a sample, we catch it. Of course, I do try and slow down and send better instructions too. 2) Time for completion of work. It's really important to have an understanding of this. When I send something new, I will let them know when I need it by and then they confirm. If anything comes up, they know I need to know ASAP. They realize that I'm on a deadline with my clients, so usually they are very good at meeting the timeframes we need. 3) Mistakes ... Often times when something is done wrong, I'll try and explain what is wrong with it and not be too critical. We all make mistakes, and I value them so much that it's not a problem. But I want to be able to come to them with how to do it right so that it's done correctly the next time. I know how I feel when a client comes to me with a mistake, so I avoid the terms "typos," etc. It's a learning process for both of us, so we try and keep it that way. 4) Samples .. I will try and provide them with samples of what I need whenever possible. That really helps. It's so true that our reputation is on the line so often. I've too had VAs that have disappeared. It is so stressful. I try now and get a phone number and get references and really check them out first. How they present on the forums and their website is a big indicator of their professionalism. Thanks! Diana Ennen

Thanks for sharing Diana! Your advice is straight forward and clearly stated! It's so important for anyone subcontracting or otherwise to be sure that the work they take on can be done. It's easy to get excited and want to work right out of the gate, especially if a VA is just beginning, but it's important to realistic and upfront about what one can and can not do.

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Doreen R. Patrick, MVA, ACS, CIVA
www.virtualbusinesspartners.net

With regards to the discussion on subcontracting, and the nightmares it can bring I would love to hear some of the great moments it has created for your businesses as well; when approached properly.

I'm curious if there were expectations laid out prior to the work commitment, and if so, was it in the form of an agreement? And, when you subcontract work out, are your clients aware that you have subbed out a portion or all of this work?

Each of our clients have different expectations, communication skills and the amount of knowledge in not only their fields of expertise, but also ours, and what it takes to complete any given task or project... even if we're dealing with multiple clients from the same industry. With that said, only we know what their preferences and expectations are, and as a lead VA we need to make sure we're communicating those expectations and preferences to any subcontractors we choose to work with. I'm curious to know how many of you, who are currently using subcontractors, are passing along a profile of expectations and preferences of a client to the subcontractor, highlighting in writing your expectations and the ramifications if they are not met (missed deadlines mean discounted or non-payment for example), and are staying as the communication liaison vs. authorizing direct communications on a particular project. I've even gone as far as informing my subcontractor that they were responsible to getting me copies of their work for pre-approval, prior to the customer's desired deadline so I know we're working in the right direction. If it's not working out at that point (after any adjustments during a grace period) I've taken the project back into control and paid out any fair percentage for the work done up to that point. I've not had to completely decline any payments (knock on wood) as of yet.

Even under the best of intensions things can go wrong at times, it could happen to the best of us. And, even if we've taken some good measures (as highlighted above) you cannot gurantee a successful working relationship with a subcontractor -- nor have there always been perfect experiences on the behalf of a subcontract with the lead contract. But, I believe if we keep good, open communications with all parties involved, you can ensure a better experience for the end client - and that is the one we need to be most concerned with. That is our bread and butter.

Good subcontractors are a GREAT find. Bad subcontractors are BAD for business. But we, as Lead VA's also have to remember to always do our due diligence because, ultimately, it's our name on the line.

-Tanya

I have a concern about the suggestions for hiring a subcontractor VA for your business. For full disclosure, I have not subcontracted for another VA, and I am not actively seeking SC work with another VA at this time.

We as new VAs continually hear: "Its your business. Don't work for free. Choose your clients. Get paid before you turn over the work."

It seems that not all of those rules are supposed to be applied to SC work. The suggestion for having a SC submit a sample or work for free prior to being "in" with the lead VA seems counterproductive to your own business.

As a business owner, I would hesitate to work for free just to prove myself. There are other ways to prove myself, and giving away free work is not for me. Just as there could be dishonest or unreliable SC VAs, there could also be dishonest or unreliable lead VAs.

I whole-heartedly agree that the SC VA should treat the lead VA as their client. Obviously, if you do shoddy work for a VA, they will not continue their business relationship with you, and that could hurt your business.

In the end, it is based on your work ethics. Do you have a good work ethic? I know a few VAs that base their entire business on subbing for other VAs. They have a good relationship in the VA community because they apply themselves to networking and proving their reliability before any work or money is exchanged.

I agree with Shauna that I'm not about to start doing "free" work for someone to prove my worth... nor would I expect someone else to do the same for me. However, I don't believe it was anyone's intention here to suggest that this is a method to pursue either... unless I've completely missed something. With that said, to ask for an example of previous work completed as Diana suggested, especially in the case of creatives, or web designs, anything visual in nature, would be a completely acceptable practice that I don't think anyone should take offense to. I've had clients ask for examples of work I've done on many occassions. I think it's only good business to have a portfolio to refer to; whether that be a physical one or an electronic one that could be sent either via email, or via a link to a page where you have it stored online.

It doesn't matter if you're "interviewing" with your own clients, with another VA or if you're interviewing a VA yourself that you may want to subcontract. You can't expect someone who doesn't know you, your work habits, ethics or convictions to just hire on blind faith. And, as a business person, I certainly wouldn't hire someone on blind faith; especially when in the end, it's my name on the line.

Just my two cents.

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TRImages, Ink
Tanya Ericksen-Troska
Executive VA - Member of Kudzu, IVAA, REVA, IREAA

great advice.. I will definintely keep the info for future issues

You'll find that this forum offers a plethora of great advice, and an equally great number of members with varying styles, experience/backgrounds and creativity.

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TRImages, Ink
Tanya Ericksen-Troska
Executive VA - Member of Kudzu, IVAA, REVA, IREAA

Comunication is key! Thanks for the insight.

Originally Posted by DianaEnnen

Hi There were such excellent advice and tips offered here on subcontracting. I know it will help so many. Communication is absolutely the key. Subcontracting can be such a positive experience for both when it works out. As a VA who used Subcontractors on a regular basis, I know that once you find some that are good, they are like gold! I do everything I can to keep them and make them happy and want to stay with me. Here are some of the things that I've discovered that have worked for me over the years. 1) Directions are very important. I will often have the subcontractor write back and confirm the directions before getting started and also send me an example before they do the entire project. That has saved us so many problems. Often times it's been me that has written the directions wrong. I'm in a hurry and write them quickly and they aren't as they should be. But by having her repeat it back, and send a sample, we catch it. Of course, I do try and slow down and send better instructions too. 2) Time for completion of work. It's really important to have an understanding of this. When I send something new, I will let them know when I need it by and then they confirm. If anything comes up, they know I need to know ASAP. They realize that I'm on a deadline with my clients, so usually they are very good at meeting the timeframes we need. 3) Mistakes ... Often times when something is done wrong, I'll try and explain what is wrong with it and not be too critical. We all make mistakes, and I value them so much that it's not a problem. But I want to be able to come to them with how to do it right so that it's done correctly the next time. I know how I feel when a client comes to me with a mistake, so I avoid the terms "typos," etc. It's a learning process for both of us, so we try and keep it that way. 4) Samples .. I will try and provide them with samples of what I need whenever possible. That really helps. It's so true that our reputation is on the line so often. I've too had VAs that have disappeared. It is so stressful. I try now and get a phone number and get references and really check them out first. How they present on the forums and their website is a big indicator of their professionalism. Thanks! Diana Ennen

Thanks for these very important tips Diana. I do subcontracting work for another US-based VA ( I am from the Philippines) and it's nice to read the thoughts of a VA/Client.

As someone that works with sub-contractors this is all very sound advice. I just want to add that i learned from the ones that did not work out. I have established a criteria list and took note on why it did not work out so that i could work to prevent those set back in the future. Not all things are avoidable.

Like a few of you stated, some work out great in the beginning then they just vanish even with great communication. The last time that happened. I waited a couple of weeks and then contacted the person back and she simply did not know how to go about contacting me after some time had passed. Just not business savy. She thanked me for giving her a second chance. Some new VA's have never owned their own business or have any business backgroud they just know how to do the work that is given to them and it is all a learning process.

I would suggest setting up a follow up process with your subbies and establish working guidelines.

I am always looking for new VA's to delegate to. Not every one is a match but when a good one comes along it makes it all worth it.

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Carla Kroger, Business Manager
www.dailyadministration.com

Originally Posted by lidiagriffin

The whole conversation about subcontracting is is interesting. I would be interested to hear the experiences of VAs (positive and neagtive) of actually being the subcontrator. For example, did you get paid on time, did you enjoy the work, did you learn alot, etc.

It was really interesting to read everything from VAs who subcontract some work out to other VAs. Let me say what experience I have as subcontractor (I am working with VAs only).

I LOVE to work with other VAs (and that is probably because all the experience I have is only positive ). I learned a lot, I read a lot of new articles as I wanted to know more and to add more value to my work.

About communicating- that's true, communicating is the key. When I get new project I ask all the questions that I have. More questions in the beginning- less mistakes later

For time tracking we use myclientspot.com, so, lead VA can check it everyday. And we also use skype or gmail chat for communicating.

I really enjoy to be part of team. I am getting bigger projects now, so, what I can say to new VAs- you have to earn trust, it won't come in one day.

Wishes!
Jade

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VA for VAs
www.jadesvirtualoffice.com

Originally Posted by lidiagriffin

The whole conversation about subcontracting is is interesting. I would be interested to hear the experiences of VAs (positive and neagtive) of actually being the subcontrator. For example, did you get paid on time, did you enjoy the work, did you learn alot, etc.

I am also finding this conversation very interesting. I have had the pleasure of sort of sub contracting with 2 great VA's and the displeasure of subontracting to another individual.
As a grad from Red Deer College VA Certificate program one requirement is to put in 100 hours practicum with a VA. I worked with 2 seperate VA's to acquire my 100 hours and they were fantastic.
Unfortunately, my experience as a sub contractor with another VA that I found on my own was not as pleasant. After reading everything posted here I realize that a lot of the problem was lack of communication.
If I have learned nothing else it is to ask questions of what the contractor expects of me!

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Helen
H & L Bookkeeping & VA Services

You've all raised some very good points, and timely too. I had a call early this mornining from an event planner who is looking for someone to handle some logistics for her on a specific event. We have had a working relationship in the past but she worked for me in a previous life. Two things from this thread that I will be keeping in mind are 1. She is my client and my reputation and hers are on the line. and 2. Don't overestimate your abilities.

Both points can be minimized by keeping in touch with her, providing updates on where you what has been completed and where you may have difficulty. Follow up on what you have delivered, pros and cons.

We have set up a date to meet and discuss face to face exactly what she is looking for before we go into this agreement but so far things are looking great. In anyone has anything to add, please do, today I could use a little encouragement...

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Bernice
Energy Virtual Assistant

Hi Doreen and everyone,
I really have enjoyed this thread. I am also a subcontractor and I have had some great clients. I really love it and would really like to focus my practice right now to catering just to Lead VAs or being apart of a growing team.

What I have found as a subcontractor is that yes communication is the key. I have had two wonderful clients that communicated with me on a very constant basis and one that communicated with me from time to time.

One of client experienced a decrease in workload and had to drop me. One client that I am still working with communicates with me on a weekly basis. She allows me to do my assigned project with little supervision and she trusts me enough to ask for suggestions and ideas on how to improve the project for her clients. My last client has had a lot of fluctuation in her own practice and her subcontractors have fallen by the wayside, still waiting for payment.

I am currently trying to pick up new clients and my question is: How can I, as a subcontractor, help you regain your confidence and trust in delegating some of your work? I am eager to learn new skills and take on new projects but I am finding that due to bad experiences in the past some VAs are hesitant to take on a new team member. What can I do to help you and your practice?

Thanks again Doreen for starting this thread. The advice and insight here has been incredible. Communication and trust are key factors to all working relationships but there is a kinship that is formed within a good VA team.

Have a great day,
Renee

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Have a great day,
Renee Zeliff, High Desert Business Solutions, Helping Business Dreams Become Reality!