On various posts and forums, there are discussions about VAs wanting to subcontract for other VAs. While I certainly do not want to be a downer on this thread, I wanted to share some important points about subcontracting for other VAs. The reason I am doing this is because I have been burned not once, not twice, but three times within the last six months!

1. Do not overstate your abilities.
As eager as one may be to get started and to gain experience, inflating one's experiences can come back to haunt you. It's important to be upfront and honest about what you can and can not do.

2. Be responsive.
I am not sure why a disconnect appears to happen, but it does. A lead VA has deadlines to her clients. It is important to let the lead VA know how when plan to complete the project and to provide timely updates when required. Take the initiative to provide updates even if not asked.

3. Project completion.
It is never good practice to take on a project, start it and then fall off the face of the earth. This ties in to overstating one's abilities. If you can't complete the project, inform the lead VA so that she can make other arrangements.

There are many other attributes that can make a good subcontract relationship go bad, but remember, just as a good word travels fast, so does the bad!

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Doreen R. Patrick, MVA, ACS, CIVA
www.virtualbusinesspartners.net

Hi Doreen,

You have provided some valuable insight and suggestions about subcontracting, I hope your next experience is a more positive one!

Good luck!

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Kate V. Kerans
Kerans Virtual Assistance

Originally Posted by VBP

The reason I am doing this is because I have been burned not once, not twice, but three times within the last six months!

This is really interesting feedback because I see alot of the new VAs asking how to go about approaching more established VAs for work. Can I ask you how you came to start working with these folks? Did they approach you or did you reach out to them? Were you left having to recomplete their work, and did you lose clients as a result?

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Lidia Griffin - Majenic Virtual Solutions
Virtual Assistant Services for Real Estate Professionals

Hi Lidia,

One VA had sought me out. In the beginning, she was very responsive and timely and at times exceeded my expectations. Then I never heard from her again. She left me hanging with one of my biggest clients. Another time with another VA, she agreed to the project and I sent it to her. After repeated attempts to contact her and requests from my client for an update. I had to explain to him what had happened. Thankfully, he was very understanding and has been in business a long time who also has had several unfortunate episodes himself. Even though he pulled back on the project, that did not affect our working relationship.

I have spoken to potential clients that have told me that they have worked with VAs who were great in the beginning and then for whatever reason chose not to complete projects or ceased communication altogether. So this only compounds the problem. It's like the old saying, "A bad apple spoils the bunch".

There are a lot of hard working VAs out there! We all need to do our part in not tarnishing the value of our services and that of our industry!

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Doreen R. Patrick, MVA, ACS, CIVA
www.virtualbusinesspartners.net

Doreen, I don't see this as a downer or negative at all but rather a very interesting and informative thread (for all of us - established or brand new) and appreciate your taking the time to share these thoughts.

I think a VA sub should ideally treat her lead VA as a *client* first and foremost - in that way much of this disconnect, etc. wouldn't occur and the lead isn't left in the lurch. This requires a level of professionalism that should be present with any service provider, particularly those billing themselves as virtual assistants.

One other thing I might add to this (based on early personal experience with a sub who turned out to be less than ideal) is *don't* take constructive advice, suggestions, or editing requests from your lead VA personally - use ALL of it as a learning experience. Remember that your lead knows the quality and caliber of work expected by her clients. If you provide an end product that needs fixing, take her advice and fix it - making mental note of the higher standard for use in your own practice. Working with an experienced VA you can safely assume you'll be held to a high standard - as all of us should be.

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Originally Posted by VBP

Hi Lidia, One VA had sought me out. In the beginning, she was very responsive and timely and at times exceeded my expectations. Then I never heard from her again. She left me hanging with one of my biggest clients. Another time with another VA, she agreed to the project and I sent it to her. After repeated attempts to contact her and requests from my client for an update. I had to explain to him what had happened. Thankfully, he was very understanding and has been in business a long time who also has had several unfortunate episodes himself. Even though he pulled back on the project, that did not affect our working relationship. I have spoken to potential clients that have told me that they have worked with VAs who were great in the beginning and then for whatever reason chose not to complete projects or ceased communication altogether. So this only compounds the problem. It's like the old saying, "A bad apple spoils the bunch". There are a lot of hard working VAs out there! We all need to do our part in not tarnishing the value of our services and that of our industry!

These almost sound like situations where the VAs in question were thinking of what they were doing as more of a hobby, something they could just quit doing if they didn't feel like doing it. It doesn't sound like they cared enough about their "good name" or the fact that they were letting everyone down...you, your client...

On the other side of things...as the lead VA, how do you sub-contract? Does the client pay you and then you pay the sub-contractor? And, how does tht pay work? Do you keep 10% for you and the rest goes to the sub-contractor or what?

I totally agreed with Tess's point of treating another VA as your client. This VA is your client! It's irrelevant that he/she's also a VA. My work output is even more critical because I potentially represent not only myself but someone else as well.

This month I am celebrating my one year business anniversary even though I've been working virtually for seven years. (I just never formalized my business until a year ago.) My current client base is a mix of traditional clients, other VAs that I subcontract with, and one VA that I am an Associate.

So, how do you celebrate with such a diverse group? I couldn't necessarily give extra discounts - my sub rate is about as low as I can afford to go. I really didn't want to have custom individualized give-aways so I gave everyone Starbuck gift cards and promotional seed packets stating, "We help your business grow, one project at a time."

My traditional clients and VA colleagues were each surprised and happy to celebrate my anniversary with me. Which is what I hoped for. My anniversary was a great way to show my customer or client appreciation. I value the business from each of them equally and know that because of each one I can continue to enjoy my business.

~Ruth

Originally Posted by MaplewoodVA

I totally agreed with Tess's point of treating another VA as your client. This VA is your client! It's irrelevant that he/she's also a VA. My work output is even more critical because I potentially represent not only myself but someone else as well. This month I am celebrating my one year business anniversary even though I've been working virtually for seven years. (I just never formalized my business until a year ago.) My current client base is a mix of traditional clients, other VAs that I subcontract with, and one VA that I am an Associate. So, how do you celebrate with such a diverse group? I couldn't necessarily give extra discounts - my sub rate is about as low as I can afford to go. I really didn't want to have custom individualized give-aways so I gave everyone Starbuck gift cards and promotional seed packets stating, "We help your business grow, one project at a time." My traditional clients and VA colleagues were each surprised and happy to celebrate my anniversary with me. Which is what I hoped for. My anniversary was a great way to show my customer or client appreciation. I value the business from each of them equally and know that because of each one I can continue to enjoy my business. ~Ruth

Woohoo! Congratulations! I love your client appreciation idea. That could also be a great promotional idea to get new clients, especially since little packets of seeds usually aren't that expensive.

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Stephanie
New VA in the research phase

If these VA's you subcontracted with, Doreen, treated you in this manner - another professional in their business - can you imagine how they treat their clients? I'm sure they won't be in business very long unless they change the way they look at their business - as a business, and not a hobby. Maybe they decided that this wasn't the profession for them, after all. But, they should have let you know that, if that was the case - not just left you hanging!

Diane

VAs that take on subcontracting work and leave hiring VAs in situations that end with bad experiences, puts us serious VA business owners in a rut. We have to work harder to prove we are unlike the others and it should not have to be this way.

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Dusty Warren

Originally Posted by StephanieP

These almost sound like situations where the VAs in question were thinking of what they were doing as more of a hobby, something they could just quit doing if they didn't feel like doing it. It doesn't sound like they cared enough about their "good name" or the fact that they were letting everyone down...you, your client... On the other side of things...as the lead VA, how do you sub-contract? Does the client pay you and then you pay the sub-contractor? And, how does tht pay work? Do you keep 10% for you and the rest goes to the sub-contractor or what?

About 90% of the time, I pay my VAs upon job completion regardless of when I receive payment from my client. The other 10% of the time is due to a pre-arranged agreement that I have had in place with my clients and the VA subs are aware of that.

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Doreen R. Patrick, MVA, ACS, CIVA
www.virtualbusinesspartners.net

Doreen I hope you find the right VA for your team next time, its very unfortunate that you've been burnt like this. I'm another that this has happened to. I did receive the finished product, only it wasn't up to standard and it wasn't worth what I paid for. Stupid me paid the bill and chalked it up to experience.

I don't have anything insightful to add other than I am another VA that has a team and the problem I have is that I am still trying to do everything myself. I have a great team and I know they are there behind me 100%. I've put two associates on retainers already to force myself to delegate So far it's working.

For other VAs looking to subcontract out, I highly recommend interviewing your subcontractor just as you would an employee or client. Ask for work samples and maybe have test projects to give potential subcontractors to complete for you. Really get to know them before adding them to your team and unleashing them on your clients.

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Kylie Short
Tilda Virtual Services - Making virtual personal

Hello

I have outsourced (subcontract) my work out to other VA's. I never have a problem because when I initially hire them, it is understood that we MUST commuicate everyday via phone or email. If one day goes by without communication, I will call or email and ask what's going on. My reputation is online if a project is not completed. If I see that they're not complying with my request. I will pull the project, paid them for the time they have send on the project, either assigned it to another VA or completed it myself. My clients want good and precise service with little or no excuses. If I pull a project, I usually tell the VA don't take this personally, but this is business.
My rep is on the line. Another thing to remember never hire someone that's doing this job as a hobby, to me it seem that they're not serious about the project or the deadline. Hope this help you.

Phyllis L

Doreen,
Thank you for your advice. I'm a newbie and one of the ways I thought of building my VA practice was to ask around for sub-contract work. I believe the best way to get work is to have great references and the best way to get great references is provide exceptional service.
I started a different business last year that involves contractors and sub-contractors in the construction industry and one of the first things I told them was how important communication is. My business model is to refer homeowners to reliable contractors and sub-contractors. Even though I stressed the importance of communicating with both myself and the homeowner many of them seem to "fall off the face of the earth" and then they wonder why they aren't busy. Unfortunately this business is not very profitable which is why I'm interested in becoming a VA.
This was a long response but I wanted to let you know that it isn't just in the VA industry but this type of behavior is EVERYWHERE!
Laurie

I may be a bit apprehensive because I am a newbie. However, I am a newbie who is transitioning from full time employment to becoming a full time VA. I've often thought of using sub contractors to take care of my clients (as I obtain them) until I get enough where I feel comfortable quiting my full time job. But I am a control freak and a bit of perfectionist, which is difficult for some people to handle. I think its from my competitive corporate upbringing. I'm sure there are VAs who subcontract who are GREAT, but to hear stories like this likely will make all of us cautious.

tj
administrative partners, llc