Virtual Assistant Forums | Work from Home

zippy1 · #1 (**permalink**) 06-23-2010

Hi everyone,

I've just been hired by my first client and am still trying to work out my policies and figure out what is acceptable/expected when it comes to billable time. My client needs me to do something in Excel that I'm not very familiar with. I knew my hubby could help me figure it out since he's proficient in Excel, so I accepted the task. Well, he didn't know how to do this particular task, so I spent time searching online for instructions, calling a friend who has the expertise, and working by trial and error using her guidance and the online tutorials until I learned how to do it. This took about 2 hours.

My question is: is any of that time billable? My first instinct is no because it's not the client's fault that I didn't know how to do it, so why should he have to pay for it. However, I'm torn because if my job as a VA is to do the things an executive assistant would do, then any and all time spent working on projects would count. This confuses me when it comes to determining what to charge for.

For example, if the client was an executive at a large company and I was his assistant (employee), I would be paid for an 8 hour day to do whatever he needed. So technically, he would be paying for my time to do everything in this project ...

listen to him explain what the project involved and show me what he needed
shop for materials
learn how to do something I was unfamiliar with
do the actual project
ask him clarifying questions partway through the project
etc.

So if I apply this principle to my business, I should charge for the time to learning the new area of Excel I was unfamiliar with. (Plus then I should also charge for the initial consultation time.) I don't know ... it seeems like too much time and how would I explain it to the client? I can't include in my breakdown on the invoice "learning how to do the labels in Excel". That would look bad.

As I mentioned in another post, I'm only charging this client $16/hr. with a new client special of one free hour.

I hope this isn't a goofy question. Please help!

Thanks!

Clerical Advantage · #2 (**permalink**) 06-23-2010

Unless you specifically told the client you were experienced in this specific task, I would definitely charge for the time spent learning. I know that some people disagree because they feel that the task learned could now be used for another client, however my feeling is that another client may never come along that needs that exact task.
I believe that way too many VA's are giving away their time! Research, learning a new skill, communicating with the client are all items that I charge for. Not one client has ever complained about it either.

JoCarole · #3 (**permalink**) 06-23-2010

Hi

This is only my opinion, but I don't bid on jobs if I don't know how to provide the service. As VAs we normally hit the ground running. One of the benefits, although there are so many, in using a VA is that there is no training involved or minimal if the client wants us to learn a specific program that he uses. As tempting as it may be to bid on a job, especially when you don't have any clients yet, I feel it is getting off on the wrong foot. Before I bid on anything, I had all my company policies completed, new client package/welcome kit, contract, rate plans and questionnaire in place.

You only get one shot with a client and if you start out before you are ready, you may lose this client before you even start. Don't forget when people aren't happy, they tell other people too.

So there is more than client work involved here. I always think about my reputation before bidding and I always Google the PC to see if I even want to work with the client in question.

There are tough choices to make, for sure,

but one thing is certain, bidding on jobs that you don't have training/experience in is not a good thing to do and may affect your working reputation, esp in this type of industry where you are working remotely from home and there is little to no contact with clients. As VAs we can't do it all, that is why we have a referral system which works for all of us.

Do you have a niche yet? You may want to think about that also. Or if you feel that you do want to offer Excel, esp with your husband's background, you may want to take some classes in that.

Does this help you?

dognose · #4 (**permalink**) 06-23-2010

LOL. I would say the exact opposite of Tina. Unless you specifically told the client you were going to have a learning curve, then you shouldn't charge them for learning time. Personally, I would chalk this up as a learning experience & only charge the client for productive time.

And while I agree with JoCarole for the most part, there are some tasks that you know are easily within your ability to learn. The key is to be able to accurately assess your skill set & always be upfront with your client about your skill level.

I tell them that I will have a learning curve & won't charge them for time spent learning. I also mention that if they're on a tight deadline, they should find someone else. I've also turned down two projects because they were significantly outside the scope of my skill set.

This isn't a goofy question at all. It helps define what your business policy is on this matter.

lrwells · #5 (**permalink**) 06-23-2010

This has come up many times over the years for me and I would only charge the client for "learning" or "research" time when it's something out of the normal realm. So, if you put on your service menu that you know Excel and this task is something that an average Excel user would know how to do, then I would not charge the client for that time. Or, you could give it say 15 min. and if you were unable to figure it out, you could tell the client. No need to surprise him with a big invoice when he wasn't expecting it.

There are lots of other tasks, however, that I would charge for, such as a client's request to research how to do something in a particular software. For example, create a custom or lengthy macro in Excel or convert something from his custom program over to Excel. To me, these things aren't something that the average Excel user would know so in those cases I would charge for the time to research/learn if needed.

Hope that helps and good luck!

Lisa Wells

Your Virtual Wizard · #6 (**permalink**) 06-23-2010

I agree with JoCarole. I only bid on jobs which ask for programs I am confident I know enough about to perform the job effectively.

However, what often happens is that down-the-road, I am asked to work on something I have never worked on before. When this happens, I let the client know. I weigh the situation. If it a program I can apply to another client, and one that I can add as a service to my web page, I will not charge for learning time. That has happened with Aweber and other autoresponder programs. I figure it is only to my benefit to add these programs to my portfolio since email marketing is one of my services.

But it states in my contract that if I have to learn something that is specific to that client's work, I charge for learning time. Rarely has that happened but I keep that there just in case a program comes up that I am not familiar with doing.

When it comes to Excel, I never claim to know everything and I find out what the project is before I commit. I don't offer Excel as a prime service because I know my limitations and this is not a program I thoroughly enjoy working with. But basic Excel I do offer and anything over and above, I don't bother bidding on or saying I can do.

Janine

Clerical Advantage · #7 (**permalink**) 06-23-2010

I should have clarified that I don't take on new clients that need a service I don't provide. However, there have been many times that my current clients ask me to use a software or perform a task I haven't done before. I always disclose to them if it's something I'm not well-versed in. To most of them, they'd rather I charged them for the time to familiarize myself with it than find someone else to do the job.
That said, I also let them know if I feel it's something that would cost them more to have me learn than having me find them someone else.
So I agree completely with JoCarole that you shouldn't bid on something you aren't capable of providing.

JoCarole · #8 (**permalink**) 06-23-2010

But it states in my contract that if I have to learn something that is specific to that client's work, I charge for learning time. Rarely has that happened but I keep that there just in case a program comes up that I am not familiar with doing.

Janine, thanks for posting this, I also agree this is good to include. You never know if this will come up one day. Esp with the technology changing constantly, how can anyone keep up with the pace...

JoCarole · #9 (**permalink**) 06-23-2010

Originally Posted by Clerical Advantage

I should have clarified that I don't take on new clients that need a service I don't provide. However, there have been many times that my current clients ask me to use a software or perform a task I haven't done before. I always disclose to them if it's something I'm not well-versed in. To most of them, they'd rather I charged them for the time to familiarize myself with it than find someone else to do the job.
That said, I also let them know if I feel it's something that would cost them more to have me learn than having me find them someone else.
So I agree completely with JoCarole that you shouldn't bid on something you aren't capable of providing.

Good point that you made Tina. I should have referenced this before, about existing clients. It seems very probable that a regular client would want his VA to do the work rather than look for someone else. In this case, both the VA and the client would benefit as long as the VA wants to learn this new skill set. The main thing, I guess, is just letting the client know what we offer and what we don't and then letting them decide if they want us to learn or look for someone else....

JoCarole · #10 (**permalink**) 06-23-2010

Originally Posted by dognose

LOL. I would say the exact opposite of Tina. Unless you specifically told the client you were going to have a learning curve, then you shouldn't charge them for learning time. Personally, I would chalk this up as a learning experience & only charge the client for productive time.

And while I agree with JoCarole for the most part, there are some tasks that you know are easily within your ability to learn. The key is to be able to accurately assess your skill set & always be upfront with your client about your skill level.

I tell them that I will have a learning curve & won't charge them for time spent learning. I also mention that if they're on a tight deadline, they should find someone else. I've also turned down two projects because they were significantly outside the scope of my skill set.

This isn't a goofy question at all. It helps define what your business policy is on this matter.

I agree Lezly with what you say here. The key is to be able to accurately assess your skill set & always be upfront with your client about your skill level.