Virtual Assistant Forums | Work from Home

Hour11 · #1 (**permalink**) 10-01-2010

I have just received my first overseas client

He's a great guy, an author/speaker and I guess what you would call a 'life coach'. Anyway, he is really keen on working with me, however, said that revenue is tight just at this time. He's working on his second book (his first one is in 29 countries around the world) and he's hoping that this one does just as well, if not better.

All sounds good right? It is... have spoken with him on Skype and he's genuine. He has asked that for now, if we can do a barter type arrangement. So, I would do the work and charge him double my hourly rate and in return, instead of dollars, he would 'coach' me (he would normally charge $1,000 per mth for 3 months for this). Then, when the dollars start coming in... he would start paying the usual rate.

I was kinda put on the spot so sorta said yeah okay... and we're looking at talking again on Sunday. However, a few things in my life have now changed (I'm relocating and my marriage has just broken down

sadly), so to be honest, the $$$ would be really good right about now.

What do you guys think of this kind of arrangement? Would you enter into something like that? I am now thinking twice about it... simply because I need the money instead... so not sure how to handle this....

DiamondVA · #2 (**permalink**) 10-01-2010

Hi Deb

Some questions to ask yourself (which I'm sure you've done anyway):

Do you think you need the coaching he is offering you? Is it worth the risk that he might not follow through with the money, if it ever materialises?

Have you researched him thoroughly - checked out his website for rates/testimonials, etc? Have you looked on Amazon or anywhere else for his books?

Very difficult one to call - but I would go with your gut instinct, even if your gut is telling you to say goodbye.

I would just be honest about your situation without going into too much detail and explain that whilst you'd welcome his coaching expertise, your current situation doesn't allow you to have a barter arrangement at the moment.

Good luck with whatever you do decide to do.

leedrozak · #3 (**permalink**) 10-01-2010

Deb,

When I first began I bartered services to help build my business. Having a coach, if he is effective, can help you move your business to the next level. However, I would research him carefully to make sure he is going to be able to provide you the service that you would need had you hired him outright. Whatever route you go I would certainly but a time limit on, say 3 months of services.

JoCarole · #4 (**permalink**) 10-01-2010

Hi Deb, sorry to hear about what you are going through right now.

This PC that are you talking about struck a chord with me, it sounds like someone that I was considering working with but then changed my mind. He also is a Life Coach that lives abroad and travels around, does not have a home base and likes to barter. He actually likes to have his own base of VAs on his Skype contact list so he can bid out his jobs to these VAs when he needs to. He is on a limited budget and he will bid out the work for a set amount and the VA that accepts the work for this amount will be awarded the job....after a while I just deleted him from my Skype contacts. PM me if you want more information on this PC. Bartering sounded good to me when I started out but now I want the money to pay my bills. Maybe bartering works for some people as long as they need what that person specializes in but it doesn't work for me....HTH

reneeshupe · #5 (**permalink**) 10-01-2010

Bartering services can be a beneficial way to gain clients and business, but ONLY when it it a Win/Win for both parties.

Don't let the client determine what is good for you and your business. If the coaching services he offers don't mess with what you want to do and you don't feel he'd be a good coach for you then it's kind of pointless to set up a barter with the two of you.

If on the other hand it seems like it would be something useful for you then by all means, if you're comfortable with the arrange go for it. Some things I'd consider would be to write up a contract for the two of you stating that a barter arrangement has been set up and lay out the details such as - how long this arrangement will last, how many hours of service you will provide in exchange for how much coaching you will receive, state that it's a professional business relationship and if either party doesn't follow through on their side of the arrangement the contract becomes null and void (I'm thinking specifically if the PC gets you to work like crazy on tasks, but never seems to find the time to provide dedicated coaching for you).

You time has value as does his, so ensure that you are happy with the arrangement and that it's not a one sided arrangement.

As I've been writing this, I had this thought - why would a "successful" author/coach ask for a barter arrangement other than the fact they are cheap and are looking for a way not to pay for services they receive? I hate to say it, but isn't it possible that he's enthusiastic to use your services because you've given the impression that you might work for "free"? This of course in no way negates the quality of services I'm sure you provide or are prepared to provide, but often the ones looking for a cheap way out will say whatever they need to, to get what they need.

*Lightblub* Maybe ask him if he's done this type of arrangement with any other VAs and if so if you could maybe talk with them to see what they're experience was like? Any one worth their salt shouldn't have an issue with this and if they do, I'd take that as a major redflag.

I've used barter with specific projects, but generally that's between a friend or business colleague to help they out and usually in return I used their services for some, but it was short term (1 project) type of arrangement.

Okay, I think it's time for me to stop avoid the project screaming at me from my desk! LOL...Friday procrastination!

The Perfect Word · #6 (**permalink**) 10-01-2010

Even under the most trustworthy of circumstances, I don't think I would barter my services unless I could use him as a testimonial to help get paying clients (especially in your situation) or I felt I could really benefit from the barter exchange (in your case the coaching).

What if the dollars don't start coming in with the barter client?
What if you get an opportunity for a great new paying client (after you accept this barter job) that due to the hours needed for both of them you couldn't do both?
What if you start feeling that he's definitely getting the better end of the bargain (in other words, his coaching isn't helping you or he isn't providing the amount and caliber of coaching he said he would)?

I typed transcripts for a client who used interviews as research for his third book (you can find his first two books on Amazon, in the library, bookstores...and they did quite well). BUT that still isn't a guarantee of publication or that something won't happen that prevents the book from being completed.

I would think long and hard about it!

lrwells · #7 (**permalink**) 10-01-2010

Hi Deb, this is really a tricky situation, especially being put on the spot. When I was first starting out I was working with mostly life coaches and honestly, 90% of them take a long time to build up their business to be able to afford someone long-term. They have great insights, products, and programs but nothing really helped me in MY business so when they tried to trade hours for enrollment in their latest program, I started saying 'no thanks.'

Everyone has given good advice. I especially like Renee's suggestion of contacting other VAs he may have worked with. Just let him know that you want to make sure this is going to work for you. Perhaps a business coach would be more helpful to you at this point than a life coach?

I would just hate to see you in a position where you are giving away your time for nothing. Your time is just as valuable as his and sometimes they don't see it that way.

Let us know what happens...

Lisa Wells

Hour11 · #8 (**permalink**) 10-02-2010

Hi everyone,

Sorry for my delay in getting back to you all.... my desktop crashed on me so have gone out and bought myself a laptop

Not the best timing, but heck, is there ever a good time for your PC to die? lol I had a feeling it would... so luckily everything was backed up nicely. Sure made life easier!

Ok, I have read all your thoughts and suggestions, and firstly, would just love to say "thank you!". I really appreciate having somewhere to come and get other people's thoughts and opinions... and I really appreciate you guys taking the time to write them.

I think I might do a bit more research on him firstly. I did check him out when I first heard from him and seemed legit. But I might just see how much I can find on him. I have no doubt he is a genuine guy - my main concern, like one of you mentioned above, is what if the money DOESN'T start coming in like he thinks it will. And if he IS so successful, why the shortfall of revenue when you need work done? Hmmm

If he was a 'business' coach, I probably wouldn't hesitate. I'm just not certain I need a life coach who teaches me to think in a positive manner. If you knew me, then you would know that I am a very optimistic and positive, happy person already

lol So I'm not certain I need this.

He hasn't worked with any VA's before, and the reason he chose me is because he loves the time difference - how, because I am a day ahead here in NZ, then he can send off his work on a weekend and have it done by his Monday.

But yeah, my time is valuable and so is his I'm sure, but just don't feel that this is really right for me. I think I might just have to tell him.

I also agree with what was written above - by Renee I think - that he's being a little 'cheap'

lol Sometimes I think that people under-rate our services, don't you? Hmmm... why is that!!

Do you think it would be okay to put it all in an email to him? Thanks heaps everyone for your comments... you really helped me make my mind up

Tess · #9 (**permalink**) 10-02-2010

The promise of paying work *later* is a common lure for the under-funded looking to borrow work/time/talent from spectacular minds. Don't let that be a part of the equation when you do the math. I've only ever bartered when it was for something I absolutely wanted or needed - and even then it's not something I do often and never EVER for 100% of the bill.

I think it's just fine to email him with your decision - don't burn the bridge though, since you've already got a nice repertoire between you. He just might come back with a sudden ability to pay, I've seen it happen before

Good luck!

Hour11 · #10 (**permalink**) 10-02-2010

Yes Tess, I think you are right. And the fact that it was "ongoing" work is what also bothered me. I note Renee said above, that she might barter with friends for a one-off project - and I think that I would be happy with that sort of thing also. IF it was something I really wanted - and IF it was on a one-off project basis. But not ongoing.... I feel that it would not be truly beneficial to me.

Yes I might just put an email together in a kind way and just say that at this stage, it's not really for me. And you know, who knows, he might just come up with a way to pay! lol

(funny thing is, that when we chatted on Skype - he was in his office, and it was an awesome room by the looks - certainly didn't look short of a dollar!! In fact, it looked rather fancy - it was a home office).

I will be sure to let you know what happens.... I do hope I get to keep him as a client... even if it's further down the road when his $$ start coming in.

Thanks for the luck